Why 24fps is not enough for HDR movies

[Lundmark]

First of all, Rasmus, I'm a big fan of your site and your hard work. As one of the few tech sites that closely reports on B&O gear, I follow it eagerly.


Alright, so I'm in the market for a new TV. I currently have a Pioneer PDP-LX5090H which I still like, even though the image is a little dim and it lacks some features. The image quality as far as I'm concerned is still alright.

It does however suck on a few other areas. Its remote control is horrible with a million buttons, the TV is thick and made of plastic, it doesn't have IP control and its menu system is both confusing and slow. It also draws a lot of power and is lacking on inputs.

The problem is, though: all other TVs on the market have these exact same issues. They are all made of plastic, have horrible remotes and GUIs and are stuffed with non-functioning gimmicks like touchpads, keyboards and "Smart" TV platforms that universally suck. Getting a top of the line Panasonic would solve my problems with IP control, inputs and power consumption, but those are the least of my worries. All TVs basically suck this way.

Except for Beovision TVs. They're excellently built, have great remotes and look astonishing. And they work beautifully with the BeoLab 9s I already own, allowing me to ditch my receiver entirely. But why do they cost so much? I have no problem paying for great quality stuff, but how do I motivate spending upwards of €100k on a 55" Beovision 11 when Sony just released a 4k television for less than half of that? And what about those Apple TV rumors that refuse to die? An Apple TV would almost certainly solve both my issues with usability and and build.

Then there's also the Beoplay V1 which is cheap compared to the Beovision line, but unfortunately too small. Why the difference in price?

So guys, if you own a Beovision, would you please elaborate on why you went with it? I need to convince myself to save up for a Beovision, because I really see no other way to be satisfied.

[Rasmus Larsen]

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, I have a natural interest in them. B&O is from Denmark. As am I

Just a few of thoughts on the subject. First of all, remember that the BeoVision 11 is a complete video and audio product. It has a fairly good speaker system built in, and it also has a surround decoder that can connect to your existing B&O speakers. If you choose to do that the speaker in BV11 can act as a center.

It is expensive and buyers certainly have to appreciate the added sound value, materials, and design to feel that it’s a great deal. The built-in Smart TV platform is worth nothing, but BV11 and the Apple TV box is a great match. I don't think that BV11 has a super user interface but the user experience of using it is fantastic. I could certainly see a real Apple TV far surpass it in user interface and experience, but I doubt that it will match the build quality even though it will be a premium TV.

[Lundmark]

That's actually a great point: that Beovision 11 is also a receiver. That's worth about €1400 alone, considering I was looking to replace my receiver before I got the Beolab 9s. Adding to that that the TV would double as a center, I won't have to purchase one separately either. And of course it's a TV, so basically, the Beovision will replace all three which adds a lot of value I didn't think of.

I might also settle for a 46" instead of 55" and the motorized floorstand.

What about the user interface is it that you don't like? And what about it makes the Beovision, despite the UI, a joy to use? I did notice the infrared lag you mention in your review when controlling an Apple TV. It was pretty bad.

Which remote do you like the best? From what I can understand, it ships with Beo4 but I can also have a Beo6, which I think looks more modern and I really enjoy holding that ball. That sounded weird.

Do B&O products get better with time? In other words, do B&O issue updates frequently to rid products of faults, so things like the IR lag and the useless Smart TV platform can improve?

If I get this TV, I will probably stick with it for at least 6 years. I am certainly one who can appreciate all the metal, glass and craftsmanship that went into the Beovision 11. There's quite nothing like it IMO.

[Rasmus Larsen]

Yeah, a sort of amplifier, but part of the "amplifying" happens in the active BeoLab speakers so it is more specifically a decoder. And it only works with BeoLab speakers (or other active speakers that you can "hack" into the PowerLink ports). But still, it's important to remember that you're not just buying a TV.

I just feel that the UI is outdated. Too much black and white (example: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/pictures/BV ... _00006.jpg), but it obviously gets things done. The experience of using the TV on the other hand is fantastic. I mean, the remote, the feel, motorized stand, TV curtains when you turn the TV on/off, the great picture/audio. All those details. It looks/feels/sounds great. B&O is really in a league of its own here.

It's a great ball, yes I prefer the Beo6, but I believe that most B&O customers still prefer the Beo4. Many feel that a touch screen is cumbersome, primarily because you cannot operate it without looking at it. The Beo4 can be operated while looking at the TV screen, at least when you get to know it.

Regarding updates. The cheaper BeoPlay V1 actually shipped without the Smart TV features. It was added later on via a hardware module. B&O also issues firmware updates from time to time. I don't know if it is possible to install a new "Smart TV" module in BeoVision 11 later on, but I honestly think that you will find the Apple TV box much much better for all those things; streaming, apps etc. The Smart TV platform in BeoVision 11 is based on the Philips/LG/Loewe/Sharp cooperation, and it is by far the worst of the Smart TV platforms out there right now. It is basically an expanded website (as it is based on HTML) and the "apps" feel more like blown-up websites.

[Lundmark]

I agree, I've not been impressed with any Smart TV platform I've tested. I won't use that feature, but one has to wonder if B&O is really content with shipping such a horrible user experience. I would guess that they probably hate it as much as we do, but did not have the time to R&D their own solution. Still, they did ship it in its current state, which I think was a display of poor judgement. I expect that from Samsung, but not from B&O.
Maybe they (or the smart TV alliance) can improve on it. After all, it's just a computer with an operating system, so it should be possible. I probably wouldn't use it anyway, I just don't like knowing that it currently sucks.

I also won't use the tuner. I will pretty much only use it with the Apple TV (which I love), to play PS3 (which I will try in the store to test out the lag you warned about) and of course to listen to music through my Beolabs.

Thanks a bunch

[Rasmus Larsen]

You're welcome. I hope to hear back from you if you decide to buy the BV11. Be sure to give us your thoughts on it

[Lundmark]

Certainly!

I've made some progress.

I've changed my mind about the stand. I think the easel stand is easily the best-looking mounting option for this TV. I really like the lazy look it provides. It's like "Hey, I've got this €100k TV and I just leant it against this wall".
So, probably no motorized stand for me. But I can always change my mind later.

I got a deal on a slightly used BV11-55 which has been used by B&O for product demonstrations. It'll set me back 75 000 SEK, or 64k DKK. That's a lot cheaper than brand new.

[Rasmus Larsen]

I agree. The easel stand is beautiful. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[Lundmark]

So I'm pretty much set on the BeoVision 11-55.
Just saving up takes some time.

What are your thoughts of OLED and Ultra HD, though?
It seems we've been waiting for OLED for almost a decade now who knows when B&O will get one out.
Regarding UHD, I really don't think my current 50" looks pixelated at 1080p from my ~3m viewing distance. That said, I bought a MacBook Pro with Retina display, and I wouldn't be able to go back to a low-res screen.
Content is also not available and I'm not sure if we're gonna see any significant amount anytime soon.

Waiting for new tech is always gonna be a wait forever, but if there's an OLED BV11 with ultra HD around the corner, I'd obviously want that.

You mentioned severe input lag in your review. 80ms doesn't sound like a lot, but you're adamant that it's not suitable for gaming?
I'm gonna bring my PS3 to the store and have a go myself when I got enough money. I really need it to be able to cope with games.

[Torben Rasmussen]

I had the TV for a month while writing the review and gaming (or even browsing from your PC through HDMI) was dreadful. The mouse was trailing behind to a degree where it was impossible to use for precision work. I know others disagree but it must then come down to tolerance - and ours is low, but not unreasonably low.

[Lundmark]

I had the TV for a month while writing the review and gaming (or even browsing from your PC through HDMI) was dreadful. The mouse was trailing behind to a degree where it was impossible to use for precision work. I know others disagree but it must then come down to tolerance - and ours is low, but not unreasonably low.

Thanks, I'm sorry to hear it. I wonder why they can't seem to get rid of this problem. It is, after all, a very premium product.

I have no use for a TV that can't play games.

[Lundmark]

I had the TV for a month while writing the review and gaming (or even browsing from your PC through HDMI) was dreadful. The mouse was trailing behind to a degree where it was impossible to use for precision work. I know others disagree but it must then come down to tolerance - and ours is low, but not unreasonably low.

Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that. I have no use for a TV that can't play games, no matter how good it is otherwise. Unfortunately, there really aren't any other competitors on the market either.

Don't know what I'll do now.

[Rasmus Larsen]

What are your thoughts of OLED and Ultra HD, though?
It seems we've been waiting for OLED for almost a decade now who knows when B&O will get one out.
Regarding UHD, I really don't think my current 50" looks pixelated at 1080p from my ~3m viewing distance. That said, I bought a MacBook Pro with Retina display, and I wouldn't be able to go back to a low-res screen.
Content is also not available and I'm not sure if we're gonna see any significant amount anytime soon.

Waiting for new tech is always gonna be a wait forever, but if there's an OLED BV11 with ultra HD around the corner, I'd obviously want that.

4K and OLED will surely be available in B&O's products at some point, but I don't expect the latter to be available in the next few years. 4K will probably arrive in 1-2 years, I guess.

OLED costs need to come down drastically. Right now, 55-inch OLED TVs from Samsung and LG are as expensive as BV11.

[Lundmark]

This is the answer I got from the B&O support regarding input lag in game mode with the latest software on BV11:

Dear Mr. Lundmark,

We are pleased to inform you that the input lag on the BeoVision 11-55 when set to game mode is 78mS.

We hope to have helped you.

Kind regards,
Birgit Baarstrøm Vestergaard (Ms) | Customer Service

[Lundmark]

I just ordered a BV11-55 MkII!

Anyone tried mounting an Apple TV inside of it? The store said I need of pry off a bit of plastic in order to fit one. Could this be true? That sounds awful.