Questions regarding FlatpanelsHD reviews will be answered here.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#7627 Our review of Samsung UBD-K8500 is online. For this review we have focused on Ultra HD Blu-ray as a whole instead of the player. We connected it to six different TVs ranging from ultra high-end to lower mid-range.
Link: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php? ... 1463743719

If you have questions please use this thread.

Enjoy.
By Surethom
#7629 Fantastic review & explains everything about HDR it's a shame companies in the low end are fooling us into thinking the HDR is true HDR.

It's a shame for people like me that you have to have a massive TV to get HDR, I only need a TV up to 43" so for me there seems to be NO HDR TVs to choose from :(

Would anyone suggest the best 40" 4k with so called HDR cheers. Need to upgrade from my 7 year old Sony TV.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#7630 Thanks for the kind words.

I don't know of any TVs that fit your criteria but I'm convinced that 40-50" TVs with proper HDR are en route now that the PC ecosystem is adding support for HDR. The question is how long you have to wait. With a little luck, maybe in the 2017 line-ups.
By pgice
#7634 Amazing Explanation about HDR
best so far on the net
just to bad that you didnt have more UHD blu ray movies to test.

just some questions:
how much better was the hdr picture on the DX900 compared to the Sony XD9305?
Was the differences more in low light scenes or overall in every scene?

i was about to get the Sony but after reading this it seems that its worth getting the Pana instead.

i also wonder how much better the UHD version of The Martian looks on the DX900 compared to a high end plasma playing the Blu Ray version?
is the differences still striking?

would you go so far to say that once you have seen a proper graded UHD movie on the DX900 everything else including SDR blu rays on any tv looks dull and boring?
to me that sounds like the case :)

HDR seems very promising for sure!
cant wait for more movies to be released.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#7636
pgice wrote:Amazing Explanation about HDR
best so far on the net
just to bad that you didnt have more UHD blu ray movies to test.


Big words. Thanks a lot! :)

pgice wrote:just some questions:
how much better was the hdr picture on the DX900 compared to the Sony XD9305?
Was the differences more in low light scenes or overall in every scene?


Well, I'm a little hesitant to say too much simply because we had Sony XD93 and Panasonic DX900 placed in two separate locations with two different reviewers. So we didn't have a chance to do side-by-side comparison. We spoke about it a lot and I think the best way to think about is that Sony XD93 has enough zones to approach the HDR effect but not cross the goal line. In many scenes it looks quite good and colors look excellent but you will also notice how it sometimes sacrifizes contrast to reach specular higlights. A scene like the sky/star scene that DX900 struggled with, Sony XD93 had even more troubles reproducing. So you will notice it mostly in the high-contrast scenes and if you are a discerning viewer I think that you will at times notice a little clouding on XD93 and notice how the the TV in certain scenes sacrifices black depth.

I expect the same to be true for Samsung's "UHD Premium" certified edge LED models for 2016 but it's just a gut feeling for now. We should receive Samsung KS8000 later this week for a full review.

pgice wrote:i also wonder how much better the UHD version of The Martian looks on the DX900 compared to a high end plasma playing the Blu Ray version?
is the differences still striking?


I would say it is quite the difference :) We still have plasma TVs like the last-gen Pioneer and a Panasonic VT20 around but we are using them less these days. Plasma had a good run but I think that new developments such as wide color gamut and HDR when done right is a very significant improvement.

pgice wrote:would you go so far to say that once you have seen a proper graded UHD movie on the DX900 everything else including SDR blu rays on any tv looks dull and boring?


It depends a lot on the content. Some scenes look more or less the same - even when it comes to resolution - but in other scenes the difference is striking. It is easy to get used to a new reference and yeah at times I would say that it is hard to return to a SDR Blu-ray after having watched a full movie in HDR.

I've heard a lot people say that The Revenant is a game-changer in HDR. After that everything else looks a little dull. I would have loved to include that movie in my review but I guess I can follow up later :)
By pgice
#7640 thanks for the info
i guess i will go for the Sony to start with.
i will order it in two weeks

i guess the Sony should show most of the benefits with HDR and should be a great start.
if then HDR is that striking that some says i may "upgrade" to the DX900 to get the last 10% or something out of HDR.

as HDR also suggests an ambient light of 5cd/m2 in the room while viewing i guess that light hides some of the problems you describe.

as for blacklevels are they alot higher with HDR?
i mean backlight is maxed out all the time right

does that mean that the backlight is maxed out in low light scenes also or does it change it internally to suite those scenes?
(or do we need dynamic metadata for that?)
if not i guess the clouding and raised blacks while watching HDR will be more visible on the Edge lit Sony than on a FALD lcd right?

i also read that you have problem catching the dynamic range from HDR with the camera?
thats true that a single shoot cant cover the entire dynamic range.

when i get the Sony i can post some photos here to show you that you can catch all of the dynamic range even with HDRs brightness levels.
taking photos with 22 stops or more dynamic range can be done but it requires a special technique
By cokes26
#7642 I just picked up at UBDK8500 yesterday from my work. I have a Samsung 65JU7000 tv at the moment.

First thing I noticed was that it auto set the backlight to 20 when a UHD BD disc was inserted. I was watching Deadpool as my test disc. I noticed that it did actually cause detail to be lost in the black areas of the picture and that there was some motion stutter on the set. I could correct the stutter with the Auto Motion Plus setting.

Most interesting thing is that the upscaling is very very impressive on this player, The BD copy of the disc almost has the same level of detail only the colour being a difference.

Just thought I would share my thoughts. I dont believe it is worth picking up one of these players at their current price unless you have a top notch HDR TV. I will hopefully get a chance to test out Deadpool on a Samsung KS8500 and Sony X9300 at work during the week for comparison's sake.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#7643
pgice wrote:thanks for the info
i guess i will go for the Sony to start with.
i will order it in two weeks


If you get a chance try to compare them in a shop. There is certainly a difference but it always comes down to how much you are prepared to pay of course. I look forward to hearing you thoughts.

pgice wrote:as for blacklevels are they alot higher with HDR?
i mean backlight is maxed out all the time right

does that mean that the backlight is maxed out in low light scenes also or does it change it internally to suite those scenes?
(or do we need dynamic metadata for that?)
if not i guess the clouding and raised blacks while watching HDR will be more visible on the Edge lit Sony than on a FALD lcd right?


Yes, edge LED will suffer more. For a TV like Sony XD93 with a limited local diming system the backlight unit will be maxed out but the zones will try to counter that. So for edge LED black levels will suffer a lot, less so with Sony XD93, and visibly less with DX900. Not a all with OLED (since there is no backlight to begin with). It comes down to how precise the pixel dimming is. On LCD the more zones the better. OLED has one "zone" for each pixel.

Dynamic metadata will make it possible to make adjustments on a scene by scene basis, which I take as meaning that mid-range TVs will get improved HDR. But dynamic metadata is a fairly new development and there is not much information about it out there. I don't expect it to solve all issues but hopefully it will solve some things.


pgice wrote:i also read that you have problem catching the dynamic range from HDR with the camera?
thats true that a single shoot cant cover the entire dynamic range.

when i get the Sony i can post some photos here to show you that you can catch all of the dynamic range even with HDRs brightness levels.
taking photos with 22 stops or more dynamic range can be done but it requires a special technique


But still, the monitor that I (or anyone else) would use would not support HDR. Remember that HDR for photo and HDR for video are quite different. For photos you basically superimpose several images to capture details at each end. These photos can be viewed on any display.

HDR on video involves actual hardware that can reproduce the full dynamic range from very, very dark to very bright. Remember that HDR video is an end-to-end system. It also needs metadata signaling in the distribution chain.
User avatar
By Rasmus Larsen
#7644
cokes26 wrote:I just picked up at UBDK8500 yesterday from my work. I have a Samsung 65JU7000 tv at the moment.

First thing I noticed was that it auto set the backlight to 20 when a UHD BD disc was inserted. I was watching Deadpool as my test disc. I noticed that it did actually cause detail to be lost in the black areas of the picture and that there was some motion stutter on the set. I could correct the stutter with the Auto Motion Plus setting.

Most interesting thing is that the upscaling is very very impressive on this player, The BD copy of the disc almost has the same level of detail only the colour being a difference.

Just thought I would share my thoughts. I dont believe it is worth picking up one of these players at their current price unless you have a top notch HDR TV. I will hopefully get a chance to test out Deadpool on a Samsung KS8500 and Sony X9300 at work during the week for comparison's sake.


Thanks for sharing your experience. JU7000 was quite popular in 2015 so I think many out there are interested in how it performs with a UHD Blu-ray player.

One thing that I didn't include in the review was that we also had the Samsung UHD Blu-ray player connected to a Sony X85C. Very similar to your JU7000 in terms of picture tech (LCD, VA, direct LED, no real local dimming). It also suffered a lot in black levels and didn't really do much for colors. But motion was fine.
By pgice
#7648
Rasmus Larsen wrote:For photos you basically superimpose several images to capture details at each end.


i know but to capture all details without clipping anything they are perfect.
even if you cant capture and see the real brightness levels from HDR video you can take HDR photos for side by side comparision and then get a hint of the brightness differences to a non HDR tv as an example.
side by side photos are allways the best to show of picture changes.

great to hear that the Sony didnt suffer to much from raised blacks with HDR then.
i can imagine how bad the blacks will look on a cheaper LCD with worse local dimming.