01 Jul 2009, 09:35
#155
Just wanted to add my impressions and a few photos of the 2709W. I am not basing them on the fact that I received it for $599.99 Canadian plus tax. I am looking at it from the full price point of view (currently around $900). Mine is a Revision A00
Panel quality
I would rate it as good to very good. Mine came with almost no BLB and no dead or stuck pixels or sub-pixels. There is a tiny bit of a "flashlight" at the top right. The initial brightness of 50 is too high, so down to 10% it went. I left it in "standard" preset mode for most uses. Color calibration is not a strong point of this monitor, but that is to be expected these days, and not uncommon much to my dismay. I am still tweaking colors via the custom menu here and there to see if I can improve it manually first.
My screen doesn't seem brighter on either side in regards to mid or bright level hues, nor does there seem to be a "one side pink, other side green issue" with whites. Maybe a tiny bit on the left side if at extreme angles, but unless I'm specifically searching for it, not likely to be visible in general use. I did not notice any ghosting or excessive motion blur. The panel seems sufficiently fast too, and overdrive does not seem "overcooked" either, so no "inverse trails" on fast moving objects.
Dark color gamma shift seems lessened over earlier MVA panels I have seen. Due to larger pixels and text, I can sit back a bit further which lessens the angle from my eyes to the corners, so I can read this forum on this monitor quite comfortably with only a hint of the "3d grey" effect common on *VA style panels. I sit about 30" or 75 cm from the screen. Getting closer does amplify the effect a bit on HardForums. I would estimate that 27" is the sweet spot for VA panels from what I've seen here.
Black levels are excellent both on and off angles. At 10% brightness the Extreme angle viewing does not bring on the glowing black I've seen from MVA panels. Black level at 0% brightness is 0.12 cdm/2 according to BasicColor and Eye One D2. The contrast ratio is a generally a very high 1200:1 at almost all settings unless you lower contrast. At 0% brightness and standard preset mode I received 1166:1 at 0% brightness, and 1300:1 at 15% brightness, which was around 170cdm/2 white level. This is the best contrast I've ever seen on a desktop monitor. Using the same Eye One D2 and BasicColor combo, I was able to achieve a very low 0.31 DE94 (delta E 94 which measures color accuracy) which is a fabulous result, and on-par color wise with many high-quality screens. A delta E 94 of 1 on average is considered excellent.
Here's a photo at one second exposure beside the LCD2690WUXI-BK which has excellent off-angle blacks. NEC is on the left/closest. Both monitors are lined up and set to same white level brightness (around 165 cdm/2), and the 2709W's angle is purposefully a bit more extreme for worst case scenario:
Here's an on-angle one second shot with NEC on the left:
Black crush is not very evident (if at all) on this screen. Black crush is defined simply as dark colors fading into black causing detail loss and "wash out". At standard picture mode, 5% brightness and default (50%) contrast all boxes in Lagom's test page are quite visible. Here is a photo on angle:
Here's a photo off-angle to show a bit of the off-angle grey brightening:
Cameras generally amplify these effects, but there is no perceivable black crush on this screen. Some details become more evident at angles but they are still there straight on, which to me is the most important. So off-angle PVA washout is there to a small degree, but on-angle black crush is not.
Text Quality is as good as it can be for an S-PVA panel, but due to the size is no issue. I detect no haloing of text at default sharpness level of 50% with black text in front of grey or white backgrounds (something I've seen with MVA). It not TN or IPS sharp by any means, but expected for S-PVA.
These are the funny PVA pixels from a dark grey background:
Here is a close up of VA text (on right) next to IPS text:
I didn't notice any backlight flickering in normal use and the only thing about the backlight that bugs me is at anywhere between 0 and 10% it takes a half hour to warm up to a decent level and until then, whites look a tiny bit "grey/greenish". Not a big deal, but I don't want to crank it up to 250cdm/2 brightness to get it warmed up. The NEC warms up quite a bit quicker at minimum panel brightness within 15 minutes. Small pet peeve, but nonetheless there.
AV connectors and PS3
The cool thing about this monitor is that the AV connectors have some features which make them very useful. BTW the HDMI connector has full range HDMI and no problem with black level so I don't know why PRAD.DE was concerned with that. Some presets change the darkness of blacks in both video and graphics mode, but there is always a usable mode either in graphics or video mode for HDMI and component.
For example, the HDMI connector has a graphics mode and a video mode and it can be manually switched for all progressive (non-interlaced) modes. I like this because it allows the monitor to be forced into 16:9 mode (ie. for 480p), 1:1, fill, and aspect display modes. The graphics mode has ZERO overscan, and the video mode has about 2.5% which is still acceptable.
Both modes have fill aspect ratios, but graphics mode has a 1:1 and "aspect" mode, whereas the video mode does 4:3 or 16:9 so any content can be made into 16:9 ratio by switching the monitor into video mode and changing to 16:9. The component connector only does video mode for Wii or other component sources (giving 4:3 and 16:9 settings)
Watching a DVD from a DVD player through component should be fairly close in quality to your favorite TV, though with less video processing resulting in some graininess or noise.
Here are some photos:
Graphics mode 1080p no overscan over HDMI from Ps3 in aspect scaling mode:
Video mode 1080i with slight overscan over HDMI from PS3 in 16:9 mode. 1080p in "video" mode is identical in terms of overscan/cropping:
Here's RDJ in Iron Man lounging around lazily. I'm glad he's clean again and acting. Blur is induced by my nervous tick
Concerning Xbox 360 over HDMi I have no reason to think that it will not work flawlessly as well.
I also hooked up a 720p/1080i digital cable box to the screen through both component and HDMI, and it worked flawlessly through the screen. The "analog audio" passthrough also worked well, allowing me to use the cable box or PS3 through HDMI, and have the three headphone jacks on the back of the 2709W pass sound out through surround PC speakers. A great addition for those who don't have dolby digital or DTS surround, and just want to listen to their HDMI PS3 or Xbox 360 in surround.
Input Lag
I decided to run a "double input lag" screen setup, where one timer is on the top half of the screen, and another on the bottom. I received an average of 39.5ms which is almost exactly 2.5 frames behind. For me this is acceptable for console and PC single player gaming, but for hard core input lag haters, it is not optimal. I am fairly aware of input lag, and do notice it on this screen, but it doesn't bother me. Here are the numbers I received:
I specifically added half a frame to a number that was in transition to give almost a "worst case scenario", which is why you see some 39ms numbers, 25ms numbers and 53ms numbers. I felt it was a bit more accurate than just throwing out the pictures that weren't completely legible.
So far after nearly 8 months of use I've been very happy with the monitor in general use, and other than the slight input lag, has presented me with no trouble or issues over this time.
Panel quality
I would rate it as good to very good. Mine came with almost no BLB and no dead or stuck pixels or sub-pixels. There is a tiny bit of a "flashlight" at the top right. The initial brightness of 50 is too high, so down to 10% it went. I left it in "standard" preset mode for most uses. Color calibration is not a strong point of this monitor, but that is to be expected these days, and not uncommon much to my dismay. I am still tweaking colors via the custom menu here and there to see if I can improve it manually first.
My screen doesn't seem brighter on either side in regards to mid or bright level hues, nor does there seem to be a "one side pink, other side green issue" with whites. Maybe a tiny bit on the left side if at extreme angles, but unless I'm specifically searching for it, not likely to be visible in general use. I did not notice any ghosting or excessive motion blur. The panel seems sufficiently fast too, and overdrive does not seem "overcooked" either, so no "inverse trails" on fast moving objects.
Dark color gamma shift seems lessened over earlier MVA panels I have seen. Due to larger pixels and text, I can sit back a bit further which lessens the angle from my eyes to the corners, so I can read this forum on this monitor quite comfortably with only a hint of the "3d grey" effect common on *VA style panels. I sit about 30" or 75 cm from the screen. Getting closer does amplify the effect a bit on HardForums. I would estimate that 27" is the sweet spot for VA panels from what I've seen here.
Black levels are excellent both on and off angles. At 10% brightness the Extreme angle viewing does not bring on the glowing black I've seen from MVA panels. Black level at 0% brightness is 0.12 cdm/2 according to BasicColor and Eye One D2. The contrast ratio is a generally a very high 1200:1 at almost all settings unless you lower contrast. At 0% brightness and standard preset mode I received 1166:1 at 0% brightness, and 1300:1 at 15% brightness, which was around 170cdm/2 white level. This is the best contrast I've ever seen on a desktop monitor. Using the same Eye One D2 and BasicColor combo, I was able to achieve a very low 0.31 DE94 (delta E 94 which measures color accuracy) which is a fabulous result, and on-par color wise with many high-quality screens. A delta E 94 of 1 on average is considered excellent.
Here's a photo at one second exposure beside the LCD2690WUXI-BK which has excellent off-angle blacks. NEC is on the left/closest. Both monitors are lined up and set to same white level brightness (around 165 cdm/2), and the 2709W's angle is purposefully a bit more extreme for worst case scenario:
Here's an on-angle one second shot with NEC on the left:
Black crush is not very evident (if at all) on this screen. Black crush is defined simply as dark colors fading into black causing detail loss and "wash out". At standard picture mode, 5% brightness and default (50%) contrast all boxes in Lagom's test page are quite visible. Here is a photo on angle:
Here's a photo off-angle to show a bit of the off-angle grey brightening:
Cameras generally amplify these effects, but there is no perceivable black crush on this screen. Some details become more evident at angles but they are still there straight on, which to me is the most important. So off-angle PVA washout is there to a small degree, but on-angle black crush is not.
Text Quality is as good as it can be for an S-PVA panel, but due to the size is no issue. I detect no haloing of text at default sharpness level of 50% with black text in front of grey or white backgrounds (something I've seen with MVA). It not TN or IPS sharp by any means, but expected for S-PVA.
These are the funny PVA pixels from a dark grey background:
Here is a close up of VA text (on right) next to IPS text:
I didn't notice any backlight flickering in normal use and the only thing about the backlight that bugs me is at anywhere between 0 and 10% it takes a half hour to warm up to a decent level and until then, whites look a tiny bit "grey/greenish". Not a big deal, but I don't want to crank it up to 250cdm/2 brightness to get it warmed up. The NEC warms up quite a bit quicker at minimum panel brightness within 15 minutes. Small pet peeve, but nonetheless there.
AV connectors and PS3
The cool thing about this monitor is that the AV connectors have some features which make them very useful. BTW the HDMI connector has full range HDMI and no problem with black level so I don't know why PRAD.DE was concerned with that. Some presets change the darkness of blacks in both video and graphics mode, but there is always a usable mode either in graphics or video mode for HDMI and component.
For example, the HDMI connector has a graphics mode and a video mode and it can be manually switched for all progressive (non-interlaced) modes. I like this because it allows the monitor to be forced into 16:9 mode (ie. for 480p), 1:1, fill, and aspect display modes. The graphics mode has ZERO overscan, and the video mode has about 2.5% which is still acceptable.
Both modes have fill aspect ratios, but graphics mode has a 1:1 and "aspect" mode, whereas the video mode does 4:3 or 16:9 so any content can be made into 16:9 ratio by switching the monitor into video mode and changing to 16:9. The component connector only does video mode for Wii or other component sources (giving 4:3 and 16:9 settings)
Watching a DVD from a DVD player through component should be fairly close in quality to your favorite TV, though with less video processing resulting in some graininess or noise.
Here are some photos:
Graphics mode 1080p no overscan over HDMI from Ps3 in aspect scaling mode:
Video mode 1080i with slight overscan over HDMI from PS3 in 16:9 mode. 1080p in "video" mode is identical in terms of overscan/cropping:
Here's RDJ in Iron Man lounging around lazily. I'm glad he's clean again and acting. Blur is induced by my nervous tick
Concerning Xbox 360 over HDMi I have no reason to think that it will not work flawlessly as well.
I also hooked up a 720p/1080i digital cable box to the screen through both component and HDMI, and it worked flawlessly through the screen. The "analog audio" passthrough also worked well, allowing me to use the cable box or PS3 through HDMI, and have the three headphone jacks on the back of the 2709W pass sound out through surround PC speakers. A great addition for those who don't have dolby digital or DTS surround, and just want to listen to their HDMI PS3 or Xbox 360 in surround.
Input Lag
I decided to run a "double input lag" screen setup, where one timer is on the top half of the screen, and another on the bottom. I received an average of 39.5ms which is almost exactly 2.5 frames behind. For me this is acceptable for console and PC single player gaming, but for hard core input lag haters, it is not optimal. I am fairly aware of input lag, and do notice it on this screen, but it doesn't bother me. Here are the numbers I received:
I specifically added half a frame to a number that was in transition to give almost a "worst case scenario", which is why you see some 39ms numbers, 25ms numbers and 53ms numbers. I felt it was a bit more accurate than just throwing out the pictures that weren't completely legible.
So far after nearly 8 months of use I've been very happy with the monitor in general use, and other than the slight input lag, has presented me with no trouble or issues over this time.