A chance to talk to FlatpanelsHD's reviewers.
By aidmade
#5236
"... but please note that I did not use the advanced calibration menu that is only available on the US models."

The European model (C7790) has also an advanced calibration menu.

Which firmware version you have installed and did your 3D glasses losing sync?

Link: Samsung 3D Glasses Losing Sync

Edit: Now I understand... by "Advanced Calibration Menu" you meant the CAL-Day and CAL-Night settings. Sorry ;)
Last edited by aidmade on 06 Sep 2010, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
By Gagamel
#5238
Will you test other samsung plasmas? I have heard that ps50/58c6505 model has better blacks that c7000...can you test also this plasma...I have a question about c7000, why hdmi black level is low? Maybe you could get better shadow detail when its normal...did you try to do calibration also hdmi black level normal if you did how the picture looked like?
By PhilG
#5240
aidmade wrote:@PhilG
Please look at Page 16 on your user manual.

Did you activate the "PC Mode"?
"In PC mode, you can only make changes to Dynamic Contrast, Gamma and White Balance."
I'm implying that it doesn't have the cal-day and cal-night stuff that the US model has, not that it doesn't have the settings listed in this article. Am I missing your point though?
By sonic_blue
#5241
Thank you for taking the time to review this TV, I am very appreciative. But I must to say I am a bit disappointed with a few things:

1. You didn't tell us what the MLL is for 50hz. As this is a European model a lot of people will be using 50hz and we need to know what black level we will be getting.

2. Very disappointing that Samsung would force it into Standard picture mode for 3D, and with an elevated black level too! I'm sure it's possible they could give us Movie mode for 3D as well, but they choose not to :(

3. Game mode - I understand this will also force us to Standard picture mode as well? So we can forget about playing HD gaming with accurate picture quality.

4. Looks like they stripped the Advanced picture settings from the Euro model for no good reason. Thankfully they still included it in the Australian model where I live.

5. Cinema Smooth - again this gives us elevated black level - useless.

6. Motion Judder Canceler - full of tearing artefacts - useless.


So as we can see a lot of the time we will be forced to have elevated black level and Standard picture mode. I don't feel this is a good enough effort from Samsung but then again my standards are much higher than most.

Sorry to be such a negative post but that's just how I feel.
By Nanite
#5242
Thanks for the review, not so much professional reviews out there for these new Samsung plasmas. So its nice to see finally some.

How is it possible that your model is missing the advanced calibration menu?
Another Danish guy has these settings as posted on his site.
http://dennisthomsen.dk/2010/07/samsung ... -settings/

This is very important for me (most likely will buy this set) as this this set is almost as good as the more expensive Panasonic 3D plasmas once you calibrate it. Specially with the advanced settings. 10p white balance etc...

What was your review set exact model number? For what European region was it for?

How much can you change the picture settings while in 3D mode? Are they all locked?

Greets from Finland.
Last edited by Nanite on 06 Sep 2010, 16:17, edited 1 time in total.
By Kashmir
#5243
Thanks for the review! It took you almost 6 months after you announced that you will get it reviewed.

Few things....

1. Why didn't you get PS50C7705 scandinavian model. It's identical to US and Australian models. It has all calibration features like on US/AU model.

2. Why didn't you measure 50Hz ie 100Hz MLL level? Most of your readers would be more intrested about that than MLL of 60Hz mode. Under 1% of your eu readers use 60Hz mode anyways (1% of average european households use their television with game consoles and 98% of their TV watching is normal TV or movies (about 2% is used for gaming). So it is safety say that 60Hz MLL reading is completely useless to all of your readers.

3. About dimmer picture from viewing on top:
The viewing angles on Samsung C8000/C7700 are fairly good but I did spot one strange thing. From the sides the viewing angles are very wide and color intensity remains stable. However, from the top the picture gets much darker and most dark colors are reproduced as black.
This is not really a problem because you don’t often look at the TV from the top but I have never seen this result from a plasma TV before
Surprise! Yes you have seen that before. It is real black filter whats causing it. You don't need top viewing angle anyways and its purpose is blocking room lightning (lights are usually on the ceiling) and it is doing it very well (you did see it after all).

And that surprise.... Samsung Real black filter works exactly like LG PK950 Tru black filter. Sadly on LG it produces some horizontal "shades" to the screen under bright daylight (But no one uses PK950 at that conditions anyway because its so freakin dim although excellent display on normal room lightning.

ps. I actually own this TV. One thing for potential buyers:
This tv has worst black level (and that also means contrast on dim environment) of the current plasma televisions. I mean worst by far. Blacks are gray no matter how nicely you want me to say it. I would even say they are worse than any LCD tv on the market today, but that would be just guessing. But I'm still keeping it because it is the brightest plasma I've seen (even little brighter than G20). And about 2-3 times brighter than PK950.

Btw, on my set MLL doesn't change at all if I change from Standard mode to movie mode. Grays ...I mean blacks stays gray.
By nicolatc
#5244
Thanks for the review !

Few requests:

1. Please measure 50 Hz MLL

2. Italian model C7000YP also has advanced settings menu, with 10p white balance (and colour space). I'm quite sure it's available in all models, and 10p white balance option is always aviable when the picture mode is set to movie with HDMI input. Why don't you use it? US and australian models only have two more modes for storing custom calibration settings like Movie (CAL-Day and CAL-Night).

3. how aggressive is ABL (automatic brightness limiter) ?
#5245
aidmade wrote:"... but please note that I did not use the advanced calibration menu that is only available on the US models."

The European model (C7790) has also an advanced calibration menu.

Which firmware version you have installed and did your 3D glasses losing sync?

Link: Samsung 3D Glasses Losing Sync

Edit: Now I understand... by "Advanced Calibration Menu" you meant the CAL-Day and CAL-Night settings. Sorry ;)
Yes I mean the CAL-Day and CAL-Night settings. :)

The EU models also have the gamut controls and advanced RGB settings. I have included the RGB gain and offset settings in the calibration table but not the other settings simple because you can't use these on your TV.

A complete calibration should be made for each individual TV and RGB gain and offset is as far as I think one should go when sharing picture settings. I know some share settings with succes on a few TVs but I have just seen too bad results to really believe in this in a generel context.

No I had perfect sync with the glasses. But I always used these in a dark room. Sunlight and infrared can be problematic I think.
#5246
PhilG wrote:FYI, the UK model is PSxxC7000, and it doesn't have the advanced calibration menu.
Thanks Phil.

Yes the UK version is called C7000 but should be pretty much the same, just with some local UK stuff inserted, such as tuners.
#5247
Gagamel wrote:Will you test other samsung plasmas? I have heard that ps50/58c6505 model has better blacks that c7000...can you test also this plasma...I have a question about c7000, why hdmi black level is low? Maybe you could get better shadow detail when its normal...did you try to do calibration also hdmi black level normal if you did how the picture looked like?
HMDI Black Level changes the grey tone levels so with video content you should leave it to Low. If you have a Mediacenter PC and use PC levels you could experiment with the Normal setting.

I hope to do a review on the new cheaper C680 plasma soon, too. :)
#5248
sonic_blue wrote:Thank you for taking the time to review this TV, I am very appreciative. But I must to say I am a bit disappointed with a few things:

1. You didn't tell us what the MLL is for 50hz. As this is a European model a lot of people will be using 50hz and we need to know what black level we will be getting.

2. Very disappointing that Samsung would force it into Standard picture mode for 3D, and with an elevated black level too! I'm sure it's possible they could give us Movie mode for 3D as well, but they choose not to :(

3. Game mode - I understand this will also force us to Standard picture mode as well? So we can forget about playing HD gaming with accurate picture quality.

4. Looks like they stripped the Advanced picture settings from the Euro model for no good reason. Thankfully they still included it in the Australian model where I live.

5. Cinema Smooth - again this gives us elevated black level - useless.

6. Motion Judder Canceler - full of tearing artefacts - useless.


So as we can see a lot of the time we will be forced to have elevated black level and Standard picture mode. I don't feel this is a good enough effort from Samsung but then again my standards are much higher than most.

Sorry to be such a negative post but that's just how I feel.
I don't see your post as negative. You have some good points and let me try to answer.

1. Yes, you're right. MLL is slightly higher at 0.01-0.015 with 50 Hz in the Movie preset. In the Standard presets it's a lot higher with 50 Hz. I have to get back to the office to check the value for the Standard preset.

2. I can change to the Movie preset here. What I meant in the review was that Standard is the default preset. But you can change settings and switch to Movie.

3. Yeah, Game Mode deactivated pretty much all picture circuits and picture adjustments. Personally I have no problem playing most console games without Game Mode. :)

4. Yeah, I don't see why either.

5. It is useless, yes.

6. I agree. Useless. But most of these circuits are. No just the one from Samsung.
#5249
Nanite wrote:Thanks for the review, not so much professional reviews out there for these new Samsung plasmas. So its nice to see finally some.

How is it possible that your model is missing the advanced calibration menu?
Another Danish guy has these settings as posted on his site.
http://dennisthomsen.dk/2010/07/samsung ... -settings/
I have all these settings but not the CAL-DAY and CAL-NIGHT modes from the US models. See the previous post for some more info on the advanced color and gamut settings.
What was your review set exact model number? For what European region was it for?
Nordic. So same as the Finish version I guess:) It's called C7705.
How much can you change the picture settings while in 3D mode? Are they all locked?
I did manage get some 3D measurements done but it's not very accurate and I'm not really pleased with the results. Therefore I have not saved these and have not shared the settings in the review.

A good starting point is to use the Movie setting and then deactivate dynamic circuits. Really, the dynamic things such as color improvement and artificial sharpness are just horrible in 3D pictures. At IFA many manufacturers had a lot of artifical sharpness added 3DTV demos and this was just horrible to look at.